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jon.s5634

What are your thoughts on Music Piracy?

21 posts in this topic

So this is something that i've been thinking about a bit lately (with SOPA in the US and whatnot), and I think it would be interesting to hear some different opinions on the topic, especially if theres a contrast between age demographics.

I'll start.

I used to torrent a fair bit of music, but as of late have been making a conscience effort to purchase all my music, (Through Itunes or a good old fashioned CD) for a few reasons. In my head, it goes something like this, a) i'm a pretty honest guy and b ) it's a bit of respect to my fellow musos, though i'm sure most cd sales proceeds go to the labels, if they didn't want people paying for their stuff they'd be giving it away for free right. i'd want people to buy my bands cd .

So for any P2P users out there, let me know your reasons for downloading or if you don't, go nuts as well.

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An interesting little article in the Feb edition of Australian Rolling Stone reviews some of the newer cloud-based storage and streaming options - Spotify, Google music, iTunes Match etc.

Methinks that these types of systems where for a small fee you get a vast amount number of tracks/plays and all legal, plus the stream-on-demand systems like Rhapsody and Grooveshark, are making P2P - dare I say it - redundant. For next to nothing most people can now get their music free of legal hassles.

I'm with you Jon in terms of buying any tune I want to keep. Even if the royalties paid to the artists are piss-poor, the more people do this the more it accumulates and artists might get a dollar for their effort in the end. For those tunes I'll play once a year I'm happy to stream them. Of course whether the original upload I'm listening to is official/authorised or not is dubious at times I'll admit...

Basically anyone who downloads pirated tunes these days is pretty dumb imo ;)

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So this is something that I've been thinking about a bit lately (with SOPA in the US and whatnot), and I think it would be interesting to hear some different opinions on the topic, especially if there's a contrast between age demographics.

I'll start.

I used to torrent a fair bit of music, but as of late have been making a conscience effort to purchase all my music, (Through I tunes or a good old fashioned CD) for a few reasons. In my head, it goes something like this, a) I'm a pretty honest guy and b ) it's a bit of respect to my fellow musos, though I'm sure most CD sales proceeds go to the labels, if they didn't want people paying for their stuff they'd be giving it away for free right. I'd want people to buy my bands CD .

So for any P2P users out there, let me know your reasons for downloading or if you don't, go nuts as well.

I'm exactly the same. All my stuff on my i,Pod is purchased CD's or recorded vinyl.

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My attitude is support the little guys where you can. If you don't want to buy the CD's, if you like them and don't want to buy them; at least try and go to a gig and support that way.

Personally since the advent of itunes, iphones et al; I have been buying everything - it's really handy to have almost whatever music you want instantly and cheap. I think that has been a bit of a game changer.

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Personally since the advent of itunes, iphones et al; I have been buying everything - it's really handy to have almost whatever music you want instantly and cheap. I think that has been a bit of a game changer.

The industry is finally catching up with consumer behaviour. When online music sales was first proposed to the major labels, the prevailing attitude was 'this internet thing will never take off...' - one of the biggest stuff-ups ever in the history of music sales. Enter Napster - smart bastards saw the future before the mainstream industry did, and we all know the fallout from that. Also being what they are, Apple was able to step in and start dominating the legit online music market simply because the 'traditional' recording industry left the door wide open for them. The majors have been playing catch up ever since, better late than never I suppose.

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I think it has its place. There's certainly many bands I would of never gotten into if I didnt download a pirate copy of their album. Now they're on my hot list, and ill buy their albums, and go to their gigs.

Most bands I hear about are in passing conversations, a friend maybe says "hey have you heard [insert band]?? They're awesome" .. Obviously, i dont want to rush out and pay for their album, and you cant really get a good vibe from the 30 second clips on iTunes, so ill download it and decide for my self.

So I guess, I think there is a place for it in terms of introducing you to new music. A sort of try before you buy methodology. Unfortunately, there's no way to really police that.

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yeah policing it is the hard bit - but maybe the way around that is for labels to offer free sampler cd's (or itunes download packs) with a few non-single tracks or b-sides from a select group of bands/artists.

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I love the idea of Spotify but have to wonder if it is a good thing or a bad thing in the long term. My main beef with consumers being able to "take" music for free isn't so much the amount of money which is no longer in the pot to make records but more that the value of a piece of music is diminished greatly cause the consumer hasn't had to pay for it. I'm not sure Spotify helps with that so much.

My other big beef with the Piracy debate is from people who blight about our business loosing money because people who steal music and have computers filled with crack software. Kinda takes a little bit of power from our side of the please don't steal my work argument :)

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^ Yeah the royalties these sites pay back to artists is in the order of fractions of a cent per song. It's worse than the royalty you get from selling a tune on itunes store, which is still in the order of 70 cents if that.

The rationale by labels is that artists will make their money from gigs and merch - which doesn't bode well for the bedroom producer/songwriter who doesn't play live. And as the number of artists cotton and 'go live', it puts further pressure on the venues and events, who can then offer spots to the lowest bidder...

Too cynical?

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From news.com.au this morning...

THE FBI today shut down popular file-sharing website Megaupload.com and charged the site's founders and five others with running "an international organised criminal enterprise" responsible for "massive online piracy".

...generated "more than $175 million in criminal proceeds"

...caused "more than half a billion dollars in harm to copyright owners" through the piracy of "numerous types of copyrighted works,"

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/fbi-shuts-down-megauploadcom-charges-seven-with-online-piracy/story-e6frfku0-1226249000744

So is the net closing in? Or there's simply too many fish pirates in the sea to even make a dent in the scale of copyright infringement?

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Thats not even a minor dent. Its stupid to think you can host files like MegaUpload did and get away with it. Its like beng caught with stolen property in your pocket outside of a shopping mall.

With technologies like bit torrent and proxying utilities like TOR, people can host them selves and be completely hidden.

Todays bust will just spawn a new era of sharing tomorrow. I believe Steve Jobs had the best response in saying that people will pirate, but the majority will genuinely want to pay for the music. The trick will be getting prices down to a level where its not worth your while to go looking for a pirate version.

Speaking of which, I just purchased a full album on iTunes last night :) Supporting the local Australian band

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Seems like we're all pretty much on the same page so far. Thanks for sharing. I'd love to hear the other side of the story if there's any of you around. Don't be shy!

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Thats not even a minor dent. Its stupid to think you can host files like MegaUpload did and get away with it. Its like beng caught with stolen property in your pocket outside of a shopping mall.

With technologies like bit torrent and proxying utilities like TOR, people can host them selves and be completely hidden.

Todays bust will just spawn a new era of sharing tomorrow. I believe Steve Jobs had the best response in saying that people will pirate, but the majority will genuinely want to pay for the music. The trick will be getting prices down to a level where its not worth your while to go looking for a pirate version.

Speaking of which, I just purchased a full album on iTunes last night :) Supporting the local Australian band

Doesn't 'the cloud' make tracking and policing this kind of behaviour almost impossible? Your data could live on one of any millions of servers and with a little bit of smart proxying, it's the proverbial needle in a haystack. Like you say Cheyne, hardly a dent.

Dammit I lost numerous legit files used for work and study I had in my megaupload account. Looks like I need to forgo ease of access for students and colleagues in favour of increased security - password-protected files on work's servers are clunky to use but probably necessary now.

And while I support anti-piracy in full, aren't the FBI simply serving the interests of businesses with this kind of action? I've contacted the FBI myself, reporting spams I've received with links to Russian paedophilia and credit card scams and the like, to me sites that really hurt innocent individuals who don;t have the means to police the net themselves. But businesses could hire corporate security firms to catch the pirates, not use taxpayer-funded agencies to do it for them.

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When you say “millions” of servers, I assume you’re talking about bit torrent? Services like MegaUpload are always going to be centralized, they can’t afford to have millions of servers, and besides they also have a single body of governance.

With regards to Bit Torrent, having data spread out doesn’t make it impossible to track, it just makes it very hard to shut down. Bit torrent still has a single point of failure, and that’s the trackers that actually control the seeders and leechers. The trackers know your IP and what your downloading (which is why I always cut off my seeding when im done). It’s also not hard to start downloading a pirate file and then get the host details of all the people who your leeching from. Do that for a big release Hollywood movie and you’ll have at least 300 IP addresses and hostnames for people hosting the files.

Proxy networks like TOR bounce your connection through many many points in the world, and do basically make it impossible to track someone, how ever, it will slow you down considerably. Hackers love TOR, because often they just need a command prompt and not to transfer file.

But of course, the internet is going to keep getting faster, and technologies like TOR will become more feasible. The authorities will never win really, and there will always be lawless countries like Russia that wont hand over servers to the US government.

Infact, the hacking group Anonymous have already fired back at the shutdown of megaupload. They’ve launched a new file hosting service that will be much harder to shut down (hosted in Russia). Its called http://anonyupload.com/

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I think it has its place. There's certainly many bands I would of never gotten into if I didnt download a pirate copy of their album. Now they're on my hot list, and ill buy their albums, and go to their gigs.

Most bands I hear about are in passing conversations, a friend maybe says "hey have you heard [insert band]?? They're awesome" .. Obviously, i dont want to rush out and pay for their album, and you cant really get a good vibe from the 30 second clips on iTunes, so ill download it and decide for my self.

So I guess, I think there is a place for it in terms of introducing you to new music. A sort of try before you buy methodology. Unfortunately, there's no way to really police that.

Yeah, but if you do like their stuff I'm sure you will purchase any other releases.

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So is it true what they say:

"4 years jail for murdering Michael Jackson, and 5 years for downloading his music."

If so, strange world we exist in.

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I would be so pissed if I had spent a year of my life making a killer album, only to find it being passed around the web free like Kim Kardashians Muff.

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The industry is finally catching up with consumer behaviour. When online music sales was first proposed to the major labels, the prevailing attitude was 'this internet thing will never take off...' - one of the biggest stuff-ups ever in the history of music sales. Enter Napster - smart bastards saw the future before the mainstream industry did, and we all know the fallout from that. Also being what they are, Apple was able to step in and start dominating the legit online music market simply because the 'traditional' recording industry left the door wide open for them. The majors have been playing catch up ever since, better late than never I suppose.

Totally true./

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