162 replies to this topic

[ryanedward85]

My name is Ryan, I'm San Fransisco. Currently I work for a record shop but looking for a change of scene. I enjoy messing around around my friends home studio and the bug has bitten me big time. So I'm looking to get into the recording business as a sound engineer, where do I begin? Will I need a degree to be taken seriously, if so should I go to a community college? There's one nearby but their equipment looks ancient and the classes rather crowded. I'm not keen on "going back to school" so would an internship or mentor program be more to my liking? I like the idea of hands on teaching using real equipment in a real studio. Is this expensive. I went online to do a little checking and there's a company called recording connection, they have offices in SF and I'm gonna pop down to speak to them on my next day off. Does anyone here have any experiences with them? I saw some rather vicious posts on some forums but they seemed more attacking than constructive. Can I study in my spare time or will I need to squirrel away some savings to pay for studies. Thanks in advance for your help.
Peace.
Ryan



(EDIT: Thread title as per RB's suggestion. - Spec )

[Sid]

Hey Ryan,

You don't need a license or anything to be a good sound engineer unlike some other professions such as a bus driver or a surgeon. You can start tomorrow but of coarse if you want to know what you are doing you will need an education of some sort weather it be on the job - with lots of homework, university or other institution, or just by doing it yourself. I would suggest you do all three 

The most important thing is to do something and look after your contacts. Be aware that you may have to be more punctual, hard working, organised and skilled than in other industries for less pay.

I'm not sure how much specific advise I can give to you as you are in San Fransisco, but that is one thing going for you - Australia has a much smaller industry. Good luck 

[Totoro75]

Howdy,
I think Sid is right on.
I think that in most creative and technical fields, relationships and professionalism matter a lot.  You must know what you are doing -- but as an intern or apprentice getting started, always being polite, professional and punctual will put you ahead of the game and might get you invited back.  In my field, folks work with me more than folks that are frankly more talented because I'm damn punctual and hit my deadlines and I smile a lot!

But a disclaimer - I'm an animator and video editor in Wash DC, so I'm not a sound engineer, but in most areas of my field as well as my friends who do work in sound, this principle holds true.

That's the lecture on being professional ;D -- but how do you actually learn the stuff?  I've got a day job that makes me happy, so I'm trolling boards and reading and fooling around in my spare time.  So far on this board, people have very generously given me some great reading advice that I think will help me up my game.

My friend is a sound engineer who records at a pretty sweet studio nearby.  He started out as an apprentice/intern, and read and practiced as much as he could.  That might be a good path to try?

Good luck!

[VUMod]

Ok first the pros and cons of learning at school:

Pros: faster learning, hopefully good teachers, access to equipment and also readings and other resources
Cons: expensive, daytime classes = less work and $$ coming in, at the whim of the teacher as to what you learn, have to share the equipment with others often resulting in late-night sessions outside of class

Versus the pros and cons of DIY:

Pros: do it at your own pace and in own hours, less expensive, can do it on your own equipment
Cons: slow, at the mercy of the resources you have available, need to have your own equipment, and may learn to do things the wrong way

If you want to DIY then I suggest load up your computer with some industry standard software like Pro Tools and Logic, get a couple of mics and small mixer, a pair of speakers and start recoding your friends and experimenting at home. Some great books to help you are:

- "Modern recording Techniques" by Huber & Runstein, published by Focal Press. The main reference for starting out in engineering and will last a lifetime.
- "Home Recording for musicians for Dummies" by Jeff Strong, published by the same people who do all the Dummies books and great for getting started

I think the scene is similar in the US as it is in most other countries - the rise and dominance of the home studio has led to the closure or downsizing of large studios, and therefore less internships and assistant/runner/gopher jobs around.

It used to be that getting a job as a runner at a studio was the first step towards becoming and assistant, and then finally a senior engineer and you would learn on the job. Much less so these days, those jobs are very rare now. The mortgage bust and  financial crisis you guys suffered last year doesn't help either 

However where you live is a good start - better to be in California than Idaho or Kansas  The best cities in the US for studio industry I think are still LA, Nashville and New York.

[Totoro75]

Thanks ISAMod -- I put "Modern Recording Techniques" on my wishlist!

[ryanedward85]

Thanks guys for the responses, they are very much appreciated. I'm strongly leaning towards internships and apprenticeships as the experience that I could gain from working in a real studio would be pure Gold. I dug around and found a company called recording connection I spoke to a young woman at their LA office and she informed me that they would place me with a mentor whose sole aim would be to train me "in house" and to get me working in the system asap. I do like the idea of learning while I'm working. I don't like classrooms or tons of textbooks. She said I can tailor my curriculum to fit around me, which sounds great. Anyone here have any personal experience with these folks?
Thanks
Ryan

[Isturite]

I'm trying to do the same thing, but because the field is so hard to get into and most people don't end up very successful in it, I'm getting myself a second degree in electrical engineering to make myself stand out amongst all the other audio-related engineers (this is also because i dont want JUST to be doing recording and mastering)

I do know that Pyramind in San Francisco is a very good school, went to a workshop there in SF. Also there is Full Sail, which I believe is in the Bay Area, but also a little pricey

Your best bet is to meet other people who do audio engineering and/or production (I know a hell of a lot of electronic music producers in SF).... It shouldn't be too hard to find people, I met a couple other producers and sound designers just from going into guitar center and playing around with stuff, usually somebody will come talk to me about dubstep or something because I'm making a bass wobble on their microkorg. Also sometimes I go to local concerts and i've talk to the sound guys (they usually seem happy that at least one person in the building appreciates the hard work they do) and ask them about who they learned from or who I need to talk to if I wanted to get a job at a little underground concert place to gain some experience

most of all, after talking to lots of engineers and producers, what they all kept telling me...was "build a network," or basically just knowing lots of people

[ryanedward85]

I had heard this was one of those businesses where it's who you know as much as what you know. Still think recording connection is my best bet.

[Mark Shaw]

I plan to combine a recording connection course with books and dvd's. I believe this will be the best course of action for me personally.

[ryanedward85]

Quote

I plan to combine a recording connection course with books and dvd's. I believe this will be the best course of action for me personally.

What Books and dvd would you recommend?

[Mark Shaw]

I was hoping someone here would recommend some for me.

[rhythmboy]

Quote

Thanks guys for the responses, they are very much appreciated. I'm strongly leaning towards internships and apprenticeships as the experience that I could gain from working in a real studio would be pure Gold. I dug around and found a company called recording connection I spoke to a young woman at their LA office and she informed me that they would place me with a mentor whose sole aim would be to train me "in house" and to get me working in the system asap. I do like the idea of learning while I'm working. I don't like classrooms or tons of textbooks. She said I can tailor my curriculum to fit around me, which sounds great. Anyone here have any personal experience with these folks?
Thanks
Ryan

Looking at their website they seem legit and the prices are not too bad by comparison - even here in Australia an engineering course at a private provider like SAE can cost over $15K Aus - per year.

If they really do put you with a good mentor even better. My advice with in-house mentorship is to walk in like an empty slate, willing to learn exactly how they like to do things in their own studio. If you respond well to their methods and work hard, they'll likely keep employing you later.

I've helped put some younger guys into big studios in Melbourne Australia and believe it or not the studios want kids with little to no prior experience at all. Why? Experienced people come in and want to do things their way, which may not be the same as the studio does it. Experienced people are often unwilling to make coffee, roll up cables or run errands to the store either

[ryanedward85]

They are legit, I did some checking. I really hope that the mentor they will assign to me will be someone I can work with. It is true what you said about companies wanting inexperienced kids, someone they can mold to their way of operating, unlike an older guy who is stuck in his ways.

[ryanedward85]

As soon as I finish my course I'm off to London to visit friends and look for work in studios there. I hope all that I learn at recording connection will be useful in the UK.

[ryanedward85]

ryanedward85, on 19 August 2010 - 05:46 PM, said:

As soon as I finish my course I'm off to London to visit friends and look for work in studios there. I hope all that I learn at recording connection will be useful in the UK.

rhythmboy do you have recording connection or anything similar in Australia?

[Mark Shaw]

I still strongly believe that enrolling in recording connections program was the best thing I could have done. It works with my life and gets me in a studio, working what is exactly what I wanted. I had dreaded having to give up my day job to be able to work the courses schedule, but if I had I would not be able to afford it probably. So being able to keep on working while I study in my free time is a blessing.

[ryanedward85]

I was getting worried earlier because some guy was telling everyone that no studio will take you seriously without a university degree, seems he was full of crap.

[Mark Shaw]

Forums are strange places. You ask some basic questions, trying to gain some idea of what makes this business tick and also the best way to try to break into it and people either attack you for being a noobie or give you crap advice, like the university BS. People don't seem to be as friendly on forums as they used to be.

[ryanedward85]

Unfortunately that is a sign of the times.

[Mark Shaw]

ryanedward85, on 30 August 2010 - 06:33 PM, said:

Unfortunately that is a sign of the times.

So are there any other schools that can do all the things that recording connection can do, or are they unique? Do the universities offer internships with studios or offer job placements?