21 replies to this topic

[Isturite]

i have been working on my mixing, but i cant figure out what im doing wrong, been trying eq's and filters to fit the frequencies in my mix but I can't seem to get my highs to not hurt my ears, and my subs to cut through the mix... tried the whole cutting above 120hz on my bass, and everything else besides bass and kicks cutting below 120hz and whatnot... did some experimenting, seems to slowly get a little better.... yet i thought my issue was mastering, so i did some puedo mastering with some of the mastering presets in Ableton's effect rack... this helped add the "beefiness" i was looking for, but didn't get rid of that stale sound (I don't have this problem in reason, just in Ableton)

everything just sounds dry, like my sounds need life added to them, saturation and tube modeling devices seems to help but im in a rut and need some help.... It could be a problem with my monitors, i've got some little 50watt m-audio pieces of crap that have very litte low and high end (everything sounds fine on my little monitors or studio headphones, but once its on a car system, ow!!)

i have songs on soundcloud (soundcloud.com/isturite), a listen and some criticism would be nice
so please check one of my songs out and see if you can give me some tips on mixing, or anything...

[Spectrum]

Love these types of posts! And while my monitors are packed away and I'm reduced to only using headphones, I've not a moment spare right now and so I'll have to get back to you in over the next with any thoughts/suggestions, if I can?

A thought for now, from your post:

'tried the whole cutting above 120hz on my bass'

While the instrument might be called a 'bass guitar, bass synth, bass drum', and while we also use cues, such as, the speed of the sound's attack, sustain, decay to determine what type of sound it actually is, there's plenty of detail/character in bass instrument sounds, or harmonics, above 120Hz. A kick drum, for example, will struggle to cut through a mix if it's lacking the mid/high frequency 'WHACK!' of the beater against the drum head.

Without yet listening to your mixes, I'd propose you're on the right track pulling out the sub end on the rest of the mix (but be wary of blanket rules, and so look towards apply high-pass filters only as required or you mixes might lack body and depth, especially where the kicks/bass aren't playing).

Let me get back to you after a listen. Keen to hear what the other 'Punks think too.

[Isturite]

thank you for the reply! What you mention about the harmonics with bass, i have noticed that when using a LP filter... but i should have written "sub-bass" because most of my non-sub bass is really dirty so the higher harmonics are important, and i only use the 120hz LP filt. on my subs

if you get a chance to listen to my songs almost every one of them has that lack of "life and lushness" that i hear in most good electronic music... the only one that doesn't have this staleness issue is my song "lanoo" and it's because I used the stock samples that come with NI Battery 3 (really pro sounding samples)... the ones that arent as stale sounding are really muddy... i need to find a medium, any bit of help will go a long way for me
Thanks!

I recently read on boyinaband.com (tutorial/blog site) that if you're music is lacking punch and clarity and you have followed all the tips he listed, then he suggests that maybe the samples used are of low quality.... I make all of my own sounds, so maybe this is an issue...

[Cheyne]

Im thinking these posts will make good articles on the new site ...  a bunch of common problem articles with solutions.

[Spectrum]

OK, listening to Jibber now...

- Wild! Some seriously cool fuzzed up, messed up sounds going on. Nice work.
- Quite busy and layered so is always gonna sound thick with some sounds lacking clarity / lost in the mix, but overall (and just a headphone listen with no reference comparison), I reckon it's sounding OK.
- Something I'd like to hear is the drums brought forward in the mix, and hearing the super sub stuff now, then yeah, all other sounds not super sub will need to be high-pass-filtered out to allow the sub to emerge (and save it needing the sub bass itself to be pushed to high).

Now onto Monster Crump...
- Cool moods, mate! Likin' the feel here.
- Suggestions, for the whacked out reverse percussion sweeps and what not, bring them right upfront in the mix so they really jump out and startle the listener. Perhaps also play around with delaying the right channel by a few milliseconds so these sounds wrap around the end too (just watch mono compatibility).

Poly Grain...
- Bit boomy/boxy in the filtered intro... try pulling EQ down in the 250-350Hz area (just watch out the body of the sound isn't swallowed up).

Had a thought, you said things sounded dry? I was gonna suggest picking out key sounds and giving them a heavier reverb treatment, keeping the rest moderately dry so as to not smear the mix with mud, but it seems you're kinda doing this already.

Don't Pick The Mangleberries...
- Wicked name, wicked tune! Mad!
- Another wall of sound, so gonna be a struggle to have pristine clarity, but the bass end on this one is a but light on, yeah? A trick to get stuff to punch through is to sidechain a compressor on one sound from the output of another (eg, a kick drum). Thinking this could tighten up the rhythm a little here and pound harder through the fuzz? Also, if need be, layer both the clean and distorted sounds together (just watch phasing if your plug-ins don't compensate for latency) just to restore some low end that often is lost through distortion.

Gonna skip across to Lanoo to hear what you're talkin' about re sample quality...
- Well the drum sounds have more depth, and it's the most natural/acoustic sounding of the tracks so far, so perhaps this is helping the 'pro sound'. If you hammered them with tube-destruction, then it might sound flatter too?

Hmmm.... I dunno, finding it a bit hard to offer really solid opinion as a) it's not a genre I'm familar with, and I'm lacking any solid reference for comparison. Can you point me to any quintessential tracks that you aspire to?

Cheers for the sharing, and I finally get to work out what dubstep is supposed to sound like (um, I'm old and don't get out much), and I'm likin' what I'm hearing.

[Isturite]

sorry i didn't reply earlier... i copied ur post to a word doc because my internet has been out for a while.... I have been using a lot of this feedback throughout my production.... thanks for all of the feedback and listening to so many of my songs... i have trouble getting my girlfriend to listen to that many of em...

I'm beginning to get to where I want to go with my sound (definately not there yet, still got a long way to go) after learning more about sidechaining, parallel compression, and saturators... but my samples are showing signs of improvement, so my mixing is also showing signs of improvement...

your input on "dont pick the mangleberries" was extremely helpful... i duplicated the fuzzy drum sound track (detuned and overdriven drum loop) and kept one mainly dry with some light eq, and the second track i threw some heavy saturation and parallel compression... eq'ing the lows on my parallel comp. send track... seemed to pull out the low end a little bit, but im beginning to think I might need to redo the whole sample becuase is realllly lacking low end... my guess is that I'm trying to boost something that isn't there... I've though about layering the parts that are supposed to be a little bassier with a low freq. sine, but I can't seem to get the frequencies to match

ill repost the finished version once I get what I want out of it

when you say "tube destruction" on Lanoo... I have a dynamic tube device in Ableton that I'm somewhat starting to figure out how to use... in terms of tube settings, what settings would be considered "destruction"?

... on Jibber, i used some parallel compression (really low treshold comp. on a send track) which helped bring the drums out... but part of the reason I think there is problems with the drums in that song is that one of the kick drums is a 40hz 808 style kick (made it myself so it's not really an 808, but sounds a little like it)... i think 40hz might be a little too low unless I'm playing my tracks on a Funktion One system lol... so i might remake it as a 60hz kick (but then it will conflict with the sub... so ima have to figure something out)

My goal is to get good enough at mixing and sound design that I can design my sounds to be very easy to mix... ppl have told me a good sample can sound terrible in the wrong place, and vice versa

thanks for the help man... i'll try to help keep this site alive, seems that the forum is a little slow... my midi teacher says he learned a lot on these threads

[Isturite]

Quote

Im thinking these posts will make good articles on the new site ...  a bunch of common problem articles with solutions.

when is this new site being set up??? and what's the url if it's already set up???

[Totoro75]

These are some pretty sweet tracks!  A genre I'm completely unfamiliar with, but these are great sounds.  I'm going to try to apply the generalized advice you get on my own tracks.

Topaz Form makes me happy.

[Isturite]

oh thanks man! appreciate the listen! you got a link to some of your stuff?

[Totoro75]

I'm afraid I haven't got much in the public eye yet.  I've got some one-mic-in-a-garage recordings of my band prior to the departure of my drummer (a damn good one at that) here:
and here:

You also get some pretentious video in the bargain!

Also, from ages ago, my buddy and I went to a local studio and shelled out some real cash for these studio recordings. Check out "Closer" and "Fireflies": http://www.myspace.com/ventsilence

I think the vibe of what we were doing could be interestingly mixed with the darker sounds I hear on this board.  Your tracks certainly inspire me to figure out these darn computers! 

[Spectrum]

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Also, from ages ago, my buddy and I went to a local studio and shelled out some real cash for these studio recordings. Check out "Closer" and "Fireflies": http://www.myspace.com/ventsilence

I think the vibe of what we were doing could be interestingly mixed with the darker sounds I hear on this board.  Your tracks certainly inspire me to figure out these darn computers! 

Oh hello!

Have you got access to the multi-track parts?

Interested in uploading something for the 'Punks to carve up with slice of a darker, more electronic edge?

Listening to Closer right now and it's uber-loverley!!!

Sorry to hijack Isturite's thread, but couldn't help but get a little excited.

[Totoro75]

That sounds like an interesting idea!  Thanks!

I'll see if I can lay my hands on the old hard drives.  I believe it was in Pro-Tools.  If I can find it, I'll ask for the best way to post the materials.

Cheers.

[Spectrum]

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I believe it was in Pro-Tools.  If I can find it, I'll ask for the best way to post the materials.

A neat trick, and possibly the quickest way (as PT doesn't provide offline - ie faster than realtime - audio bouncing) is to highlight each track, then hit 'consolidate selection' (from the menu), re-name 'em so you can search 'em and find 'em easily enough, then drag the newly-created files out of the audio folder. This'll capture all the edits/regions as single left and right stems, minus the EQ and effects. Then depending what the native format was of the session, you may need to convert to WAV etc.

"Closer" really is an awesome listen. And would absolutely love the opportunity to work with it, exploring some orchestral arrangements to add to its epic-ness etc. I reckon H.P.S (one of the fellow punks on here) would do it some serious justice and respect too.

Keep us posted...

[Totoro75]

I can dig it!  Thanks!

[Spectrum]

Sorry mate, edited my post after you posted. Added a couple of extra comments in there.

[Totoro75]

By the way, Dear Soundpunk Community, I checked out a new track on Isturite's page called Grimer, and it's pretty freaking cool.  Especially at 0:45 there are some insane sounds.  :clap:        I clearly need to start learning Ableton Live and Massive.

So - is this a fair example of "Dubstep"?  I loved listening to it....but a stupid question occurs to me, do people dance to this?  I could imagine chilling and basking to slower tracks....or that slow headbang that looks like wheat fields in the wind! 

[Isturite]

it's main focus was wickedness and crazy sounds instead of make you wanna dance stuff.... more towards listening music

i guess it's dubstep, but it's a little dirtier and slower than normal... a bit industrial/glitch too... do people dance to dubstep??? oh heelllll yea!!! they get DOWN.... do ppl dance to MY dubstep? that is questionable (with my love of IDM and glitch, you either have to be frying or into metal to really understand the rhythm)....

to check out some true dubstep... check out these artists: Caspa, Rusko, The Widdler, Excision, and Reso (there's a lot more but that's a few main ones)

and dubstep fusion stuff: Bassnectar, Vibesquad, Tipper

[whizzybill]

Hi there,

Nice to see a strong interest in this thread!

I think the advice is really good. so i'll try and throw in my two cents.
I think that the problem is soley about your mixing capabilities. I've been frequently told that you know you've got a good mix when a mastering engineer has hardly any work to do to master it!
I don't think its your monitors beacause after a while of using them you should have an idea of how to get the best sound from them.
Have you ever thought about doing a music production course of some kind? Listening to your tracks i hear that they are pretty much there but just missing that 'sparkle' to it. A course might be able to teach you how to get that sparkle.
I know schools such as Point Blank run an online courses in mixing which you might find of interest as they all are run by industry professional tutors. Have a look at their course brouchre: http://www.pointblan...ne.net/courses/

Just giving you another alternative to the advice you've gotten in this thread. I think at some point you hit that glass ceiling which some sort of formal learning can help you break through.

Anyway i wish you all the best in your productions!!

[Isturite]

Quote

Hi there,

Nice to see a strong interest in this thread!

I think the advice is really good. so i'll try and throw in my two cents.
I think that the problem is soley about your mixing capabilities. I've been frequently told that you know you've got a good mix when a mastering engineer has hardly any work to do to master it!
I don't think its your monitors beacause after a while of using them you should have an idea of how to get the best sound from them.
Have you ever thought about doing a music production course of some kind? Listening to your tracks i hear that they are pretty much there but just missing that 'sparkle' to it. A course might be able to teach you how to get that sparkle.
I know schools such as Point Blank run an online courses in mixing which you might find of interest as they all are run by industry professional tutors. Have a look at their course brouchre: http://www.pointblan...ne.net/courses/

Just giving you another alternative to the advice you've gotten in this thread. I think at some point you hit that glass ceiling which some sort of formal learning can help you break through.

Anyway i wish you all the best in your productions!!

ah yes, the "sparkle".... THAT's what I need hahaha... I took a MIDI course at a community college but felt like i knew more than the teacher almost (except about control voltage)... when I asked him about getting better sound quality, he had no idea at all. I actually got some better monitors recently (mackie mr8's) and I am noticing that my songs were messed up!!! I can finally hear what's going on fully... still need the sparkle though

I'll have to check that course out because I am at the point of needing to find someone who has that sparkle and have them teach me because I don't see myself figuring it out on my own very quickly

thanks for the help guys, I'm going to post some of my more recent stuff that was made on my real studio monitors to see how that stands up against my old material... but again, I appreciate the input everyone!

[Isturite]

I came up with a new track... it's been a while since I've posted here... but this is how far my sound improvement have come in that time... I'm still frustrated and wish I had better sound quality but I feel as though I've come a long way... Now it's mainly just a matter of compression and being more careful with my levels...

If anybody has any more mixing feedback for me I would be very grateful, here's my most recent track... I really could use an engineers advice here
Listen on Soundcloud.com