7 replies to this topic

[SilverStreak]

Ok, Due to the valid arguments to and for these two analog synths and their $$$ worth, build/stress value, these days on the general market, I will start this thread here.

Q1. Does anyone else see genuine 2nd hand 303's going for $2000+ as a valid expense?

Q2. Does anyone else see brand new x0xb0x's going for $700 built some with warranty even as a justifable equivalent? Even with all the extra functionality in a modern studio?



Lets discuss..and remember where all after the same thing here

eg1.

[ehsan]

This is a complete bunk argument. If it was even remotely plausible there would be absolutely no vintage guitar trade. As this is a mighty and thriving industry which healthily runs alongside a cornucopia of chinese $2.50 lookalike soundalikes - myth = busted. Sadly for the person who doesn't have the money, they can't have that $2000 303, they'll have to settle for the (Squier version) x0x.

Yes. It really is that simple.

[Zachary]

I may be out of line here, and I am relatively new to the forum, so forgive me if I'm wrong...

...but I don't think the point lies in what gear you have.  Assuming your discerning ear can tell what someone's using for that acid line (303, x0xb0x, ReBirth, Revolution, whatever), in the end does it really matter if it's a whomping track that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up?  I firmly believe one should work within one's means, and if that means you can't afford do drop a couple grand on a genuine 303 or don't want to pay $700 for a prebuilt x0xb0x, then use whatever you can/are willing to buy and get down to it.  As someone else admitted on another forum, you'd be surprised how many good acid records are out there that use budget 303 clones, either hardware or software.

Ehsan is right about the vintage guitar trade analogy.  But that's how punk started; kids getting together and making music with whatever guitars they had and changing the face of music in the process.

And no, I don't own a 303 (worked with one).  Would I like one?  Absolutely.  I'm sure they're completely worth the $2000+ people are asking for them, but that's a bit out of my range at this point.

[Yokomode]

It's an interesting 'debate'.

The reality is that as mentioned above, when heard in a recording 98% of listeners, 'serious Acidhead' or not, would not be able to determine the source of the 'Acid' sounds they are hearing.

The only situation in which the ear of the listener will discriminate is hearing the machine 'live' through an 'adequate' sound system.

The audio differences between the x0xb0x and the original TB303 are so miniscule that i doubt even the 'trained' ear could tell the two apart.

It is fetishism for the object itself, not the sound that it produces, much like the 'second hand guitar market' alluded to in the above comment that drives people to pursue the Original TB303 at such exorbitant prices.

In this day and age we are spoiled for choice when it comes to 'true' analog synths that can produce a similar, even superior 'Acid' sound.

i have personally found the Mopho to be an incredibly versatile and huge sounding 'Acid box', there are many others.

The sound of a laptop computer emulating 'Acid' over an 'adequate' or (though rare) 'decent' sound system is where it begins to get really sad, i'd prefer the sound of real analog circuitry over that flat crap any day of the week.

[dylab]

Q1. Does anyone else see genuine 2nd hand 303's going for $2000+ as a valid expense?
If you have the cash and want one then buy it, I got mine for a lot less and love it, easy to use, fun, sounds great, you can even copy patterns on it. I thought about getting a clone but didn't.
Before I got the tb303 I used ABL bassline and ran that from a korg ea-1, which is probably the cheapest way to have the x0x programming and sound, though accents are a pain to work out

Q2. Does anyone else see brand new x0xb0x's going for $700 built some with warranty even as a justifable equivalent? Even with all the extra functionality in a modern studio?
Again its a personal choice, you could do everything in the box and many people do but i prefer the immediacy and ease of use of the x0x style hardware.

p.s. I do have a fake 808/909 in the guise of a novation drum station, and while I'm really happy with the sounds I get from it, its nowhere near as fun to use as the 707/606/ ER1 that I own.
I even tried using the ER-1 as a controller for it but alas no enough drums on the er1, so maybe my next tax return will go on an 808

[SilverStreak]

So yeah, these days I spose laying down 2large for a 303 is for synth collectors, and rich kids who can afford that much for a monosynth with only sync and gate control.

The x0xb0x's are pretty awesome,I think they've done it right...finally someone has   but then again there's many variables there too as far as sound goes depending on who built it/components etc they will vary in sound. But the 303's have varying components aswell. They aren't all the same as they have different osc/env/filter and amp transistors and ic's during their 18mnth production time.

At the end of the day, it equates to 4 x x0xb0x's built by me or 1 x 303.... hmmm.  For me personally I'll take the 2 x0xb0xes with money left to spend.

[neo]

Quote

I hate getting into these types of discussions but here's my thoughts.

The main differences in sound between a TB303 and a x0xb0x are caused by 25 year old capacitors in a TB303 make it (only barely) more warbly and unpredictable. They need replacing if the TB303 is to sound the same as it did out of the factory, and I guarantee that difference would disappear.

Further, the difference in sound between a 303 and a x0x is no more than the difference between a 303 and another 303.

Personally, and I will put money on being a bigger acid head than anyone (don't make me count how many acid tunes I own on vinyl and digital but I bet it's more than you ), I would take 3 x0xb0xes any day of the week over a single TB303.

To me it's about the sound of the box, not the box itself, and the x0x nails it IMHO.

Ehsan - no I don't own one but yes I've used one.

Mine from the thread that led to this one.

I will elaborate and say that I don't really have a personal opinion on the price of the TB303 - only a preference based on it. I'm a free market capitalist, so IMO if the TB303 sells at $2200 then it is worth $2200. The second hand market is truly free of distortions, the only thing that drives prices is what people are willing to pay. It is simply a supply vs. demand issue. Demand for TB303s has stayed high before and after the invention of the x0x (to my ears, no other clone comes close so I would discount their affect on prices) and that demand is largely based on nostalgia.

Personally, as much as I love the sound of acid, I just don't have nostalgia about physical objects. It's not that I don't think that the TB303 is worth the money, I believe it is simply because of my statement above. To my ears the difference in sound is negligible so my preference for a x0x (or 3!) is purely economical. More acid for less money is a win for me.

In the end, for me, the main thing always when it comes to music, is the punters on the dance floor. I know that 99% don't know or care whether the track playing uses TB303 or x0xb0x.

[necromancer]

In that video it sounded like the 303's filters were a bit more overdriven than the x0x's. The x0x just sounded "duller" to me.

What else could be the cause of this difference in sound? Inconsistent settings? The different transistors?

If I just had that video to go by, I'd get the 303 + DevilFish because it's easier to get the sound I want. With the x0xb0x I feel like I'd have to be boosting the highs to match that overdriven filter sweep in the 3rd or 4th test that he does...