5 replies to this topic

[lightfoot]

So,

We do our live show with a certain portion recorded and played back either through a sampler or from a laptop.

We have live vocals and I play synths and we also have a live drummer who plays over a kick drum in the backings and adds percs and what not.

Now, when mastering the full recorded track everything fits right, but since the backing only has a kick, bass, lead depending on the song, should I leave headroom in the track to allow for space from the drums and vocals and what not.. or just get the backing track up loud and around 0db and let the sound guy do the mixing?

at the moment the backing has at least 3db of head room before peaking (not even sure if thats correct terminology), but people have said its a little quiet at times..

This is a totally new foray for us, so any thoughts would be much appreciated:)

Cheers.

lach

[wisefox]

Do your live elements go straight to front of house or into your sound card and mixed in the box? Have you considered using your own hardwear eq/compression/limiting before it goes to the sound guy or would you rather let him worry about it?

I did a gig where we ran live vocals, synth and guitar into my soundcard, mixed in the computer with the other elements, ran through a (software) eq and limiter (which i know is dangerous in a live situation), then just stereo outs to FOH, so the sound guy wasn't doing too much. Sound did work very well though. Drum kits a whole other story i guess...

[lightfoot]

yeah live elements go direct to FOH, dont particularly want to mix it in the computer as I would rather run the backings from the SP404, dont like computers live so much as its the backbone of the whole operation!

so yeah, if thats the case, should the backings leave headroom for other instruments in the mix, or should they be right up on 0db?

[wisefox]

understand about the computer, unfortunately the audience still frown when they see it on stage as well.

personally I'd be leaving a descent amount of a headroom, at the end of the day the engineer will probably put it through a compressor/limiter anyway, plus he should boost your backing if needed (not that i know much about FOH mixing).

every now and then you see a gig (often an amateur one, or at a venue that doesn't suit the genre) where it just sounds like their smashing their sound against a brickwall and its never good, parts get lost and lack definition...

[Spectrum]

Quote

Now, when mastering the full recorded track everything fits right, but since the backing only has a kick, bass, lead depending on the song, should I leave headroom in the track to allow for space from the drums and vocals and what not.. or just get the backing track up loud and around 0db and let the sound guy do the mixing?

at the moment the backing has at least 3db of head room before peaking (not even sure if thats correct terminology), but people have said its a little quiet at times..

What do you mean by 'headroom'?

- In the laptop?
- In the FOH?
- At the bar?

In short, answering your question 'should I master my backing tracks', while mastering isn't the right word, I'm thinking some dynamics treatment will be very important.

But for starters, if people are complaining the backing tracks are quiet, can't the FOH operator just push them higher in the mix?

If they're then sitting unsteady, that is, darting forward/backward in the mix, I'd recommend some compression to tame the dynamics (which can inadvertently make them seem louder too).

Finally, a global compressor / limiter slapped across the main FOH mixer's outputs (thus encompassing the final live + backing mixes)  would be ideal to gel everything together and add even more perceived volume.

You've noted '3dB headroom'. Is that the difference between the loudest peak in your backing mix and 0dBFS on your playback device's meters? And you want to know whether to bump it up to 0dBFS?

Peak readings have next to no correlation to perceived volume. A track peaking at -12dBFS (ie. 3/4 up the meters) could appear to be louder than a track peaking at -0.02dBFS (hitting the top of the meters), if the lower reading track was compressed more heavily. It's all in the dynamic range, or the lack thereof, that lifts the sense of volume energy in a track.

Also, if I get what you're saying, then the headroom you're describing (making room for vox etc) becomes a moot point as the constraint you're referring to is only to do with the backing track player itself. In other words, it's not as if you're feeding your vox etc back into the laptop to mix it in with your backing track and need to make room for that.

I think that makes sense, written in a hurry, sorry if I've missed your points.

[Funkthesis]

I agree with your points there and I think the point lighfoot is trying to make is regarding the consistency of the sound quality between the backing tracks and the live instruments and vocals.
As a solo performer using bass drums and some keys/backing vocals I found it best not to treat the backing tracks too much because then there is more a sense of a fitting live feel between the instruments being played onstage and vocals and let any compression be added on the overall mix or at front of house.