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Ok I've been trying to mix some vocals into a track I made... I record the vocals using Power sound editor and I make my beats using FL Studio 8... The problem is I cant get the whole vocal-into-track mixing thing right... the vocals either sound too low or the track sounds too low forgive me if this is a dumb one but nobody diserves to be forever dumb... so if the experts could come in and show me some light on vocal mixing technics (dont leave anything out) appreciated in advance :-
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#2
Posted 05 September 2009 - 09:05 AM
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Punk
Hmmm. I would think it might be a case of mic placement &/or compression.
These are sciences unto themselves. Rather than me attempting to clumsily explain, have a read of this:
http://www.soundonso...putervocals.htm
This:
http://www.soundonso...es/qa0409_2.htm
And perhaps this:
http://www.soundonso...s/vocalsfaq.asp
These are excellent articles to get you on the right, ahem, track and will give you a good grounding for vocal recording for years to come. If you're still having trouble after that, come back and let us know and we'll try something else. There's no shortage of expertsise at Soundpunk. I'm sure there'll be plenty of suggestions flying your way soon enough.
These are sciences unto themselves. Rather than me attempting to clumsily explain, have a read of this:
http://www.soundonso...putervocals.htm
This:
http://www.soundonso...es/qa0409_2.htm
And perhaps this:
http://www.soundonso...s/vocalsfaq.asp
These are excellent articles to get you on the right, ahem, track and will give you a good grounding for vocal recording for years to come. If you're still having trouble after that, come back and let us know and we'll try something else. There's no shortage of expertsise at Soundpunk. I'm sure there'll be plenty of suggestions flying your way soon enough.
#3
Posted 05 September 2009 - 09:59 AM
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Newbie
Thanx for the quick response I'll check the links out
#4
Posted 05 September 2009 - 10:18 AM
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Gold Punk
eq is another big factor, cutting out the lowend is a good start.. whack an eq onto your vocal track and sweep a high pass filter over the vocals until you can hear it affecting them. thats your start point.. then play your track with the vocals and continue to sweep until it sounds good/ok/better/right.. then cut or boost other frequencies to help it sit in that hole - dont over do these cuts/boosts (unless it sounds good - which is less likely).. then start messing with volume/compression.
One thing that really helped me get my vox sitting prettier was the intrument/eq charts - from memory someone posted a good one here somewhere. If you have everything sitting in a nice pocket then vocals become heaps easier to fit in and you are less likely to have volume issues.
One thing that really helped me get my vox sitting prettier was the intrument/eq charts - from memory someone posted a good one here somewhere. If you have everything sitting in a nice pocket then vocals become heaps easier to fit in and you are less likely to have volume issues.
#5
Posted 05 September 2009 - 12:28 PM
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Sound Cunt Extraordinaire
- LocationInside the Anus of a Flying Walrus
Getting a vocal mix right starts at tracking. You need to do the best possible job getting the vocals into the box before you can start thinking about making them sit right in a mix. No point polishing a turd, as the saying goes - and when you're starting out it'll lead to much frustration to try and make poorly recorded vocals sit right in a mix.
Now, i'm not saying you need to use a whiz bang condensor or the best treated room or even the best pre's and compressors, but you do need to pay attention to making sure you EQ correctly at record time to get the best depth (which generally means the right mix of harmonics) from the source. You'll find it hard to get a very polished sound without some polished gear, but you can pull good sounding vocals and demo tracks from even an SM58 in a bedroom through a deadringer desk if you spend some time getting EQ right.
There's lots of different theories on EQ'ing vocals, but you'll find they all seem to contradict. Personally, i like to sweep through some bands on the mid (sweepable EQ) on the desk and find the parts that jump out with a bit of boost (like 6B or so). These will be the root notes i guess is the best way to describe them. They vary from vocalist, room, mic and signal chain. Once you've found those peaks, you need to decide if you want more or less of them to fit in with the track. Once you've got that setting, you can move on to trying to EQ out some of the anomolies the room and mics might be adding if they present an issue for you.
Good compression settings or 'riding the fader' are important while tracking vocals so that you can control the dynamics of the vocalist. This can take a bit of getting use to and you might be lucky enough to get close to a fixed point with one vocalist if they've got reasonable mic technique and good vocal control. Not that common, unfortunately. If you're totally in the box using VSTs, this will make things more difficult BUT not impossible. You just need to be prepared to pu an compressor insert on your channel and ride the faders in the recording software.
When you're recording the vocalist don't forget to ad some verb/delay to their headphone/monitor mix. It helps them control harmonics and a bunch of other shit Rhythm Boy can explain to you really well. Don't forget that effects are also an important tool during mixdown - by applying the right amount of delay, verb and/or chorus you can bring a vocal forward in the or make it blend without using level control.
Overall, be aware of the key the vocalist is singing in compared to the track as well. Slightly off tune is acceptable but if they're in an entirely different key you'll find it is hard in western musi to get the mix sitting right ever. At that stage, you need to start looking at pitch correction and time warping to change the vocal to match key. Try and avoid this as it leads to heartache and pain... unless you really enjoy doing it. It's unfortunate that very few people ever get to work with truely talented vocalists, but if you can get someone that's only slightly off time and a little off key, you'll find getting a mix is very easy. If they're pitch perfect and on key, it's a piece of piss. If not, let the games begin!
Final thing - if you want a critical ear passed over what you're doing, don't be affraid to post in the track reviews section. It doesn't have to be electronic music (would be nice change to have something else again!!) and it doesn't have to be perfect. Just whack it up and ask for thoughts on what you're trying to achieve. I'm sure you'll get some tips from that - we all do!!
Now, i'm not saying you need to use a whiz bang condensor or the best treated room or even the best pre's and compressors, but you do need to pay attention to making sure you EQ correctly at record time to get the best depth (which generally means the right mix of harmonics) from the source. You'll find it hard to get a very polished sound without some polished gear, but you can pull good sounding vocals and demo tracks from even an SM58 in a bedroom through a deadringer desk if you spend some time getting EQ right.
There's lots of different theories on EQ'ing vocals, but you'll find they all seem to contradict. Personally, i like to sweep through some bands on the mid (sweepable EQ) on the desk and find the parts that jump out with a bit of boost (like 6B or so). These will be the root notes i guess is the best way to describe them. They vary from vocalist, room, mic and signal chain. Once you've found those peaks, you need to decide if you want more or less of them to fit in with the track. Once you've got that setting, you can move on to trying to EQ out some of the anomolies the room and mics might be adding if they present an issue for you.
Good compression settings or 'riding the fader' are important while tracking vocals so that you can control the dynamics of the vocalist. This can take a bit of getting use to and you might be lucky enough to get close to a fixed point with one vocalist if they've got reasonable mic technique and good vocal control. Not that common, unfortunately. If you're totally in the box using VSTs, this will make things more difficult BUT not impossible. You just need to be prepared to pu an compressor insert on your channel and ride the faders in the recording software.
When you're recording the vocalist don't forget to ad some verb/delay to their headphone/monitor mix. It helps them control harmonics and a bunch of other shit Rhythm Boy can explain to you really well. Don't forget that effects are also an important tool during mixdown - by applying the right amount of delay, verb and/or chorus you can bring a vocal forward in the or make it blend without using level control.
Overall, be aware of the key the vocalist is singing in compared to the track as well. Slightly off tune is acceptable but if they're in an entirely different key you'll find it is hard in western musi to get the mix sitting right ever. At that stage, you need to start looking at pitch correction and time warping to change the vocal to match key. Try and avoid this as it leads to heartache and pain... unless you really enjoy doing it. It's unfortunate that very few people ever get to work with truely talented vocalists, but if you can get someone that's only slightly off time and a little off key, you'll find getting a mix is very easy. If they're pitch perfect and on key, it's a piece of piss. If not, let the games begin!
Final thing - if you want a critical ear passed over what you're doing, don't be affraid to post in the track reviews section. It doesn't have to be electronic music (would be nice change to have something else again!!) and it doesn't have to be perfect. Just whack it up and ask for thoughts on what you're trying to achieve. I'm sure you'll get some tips from that - we all do!!
#6
Posted 06 September 2009 - 09:07 AM
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Newbie
yho! the links were a light bearer on many things and thanx Vagrant and Jester I think I need to invest more on sound equipment cause now Im working with a dynamic mic and a laptop wit a bunch of softwares I think I'll have to get me a pop-blocker and a good mic stand to actually record good vocals, thanks for the advice guys I'll work on it... :cans:
#7
Posted 22 December 2009 - 09:58 PM
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Newbie
Hey mate, there are a few other things that you can do with even a shity vocal. There are come subtle reverbs and delays that can pull a vox into a mix, making it sound a little further away. compressing it with a valve simulated compressor can work wonders too. and possibly even dropping some of the top end EQ to take the edge off to put the vocal back into the mix and make it sound a little further away.
If you consider most sounds when someone is talking to you. there is more mid than top. BUT when someone is close to you, you hear mid and a whole lot of highs. Another thing is that when someone is talking to you up REAL close there is a SMALL delay between ears. SO a little trick that I do sometimes, is double track the vocals Pan 1 left, and the other right. and put a REALY small delay on 1 of them. Say 10ms should do it. Sit between the speakers, put a subtle delay on both vocal lines and listen to the difference. Reduce the effect by panning both channels closer to centre.
Good luck..
If you consider most sounds when someone is talking to you. there is more mid than top. BUT when someone is close to you, you hear mid and a whole lot of highs. Another thing is that when someone is talking to you up REAL close there is a SMALL delay between ears. SO a little trick that I do sometimes, is double track the vocals Pan 1 left, and the other right. and put a REALY small delay on 1 of them. Say 10ms should do it. Sit between the speakers, put a subtle delay on both vocal lines and listen to the difference. Reduce the effect by panning both channels closer to centre.
Good luck..
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