8 replies to this topic

[Dirt_Rock]

Hi guys

Me and a mate of mine have a gig coming up and would like to sync two laptops running Ableton Live. We have had trouble getting it working. Has anyone had any success getting it going??? If so How??

[BOB-SNARE]

What version of Live?
Are you just triggering clips or running VSTis?

We have reasonable success at syncing Live 5.2.2 to MIDI clock (using a Kenton Control Freak as a master).
The resaon for using the ControlFreak as a MIDI clock source, was due to the TR909 losing sync from Ableton (combo of V1. 909 Firmware and jittery clock from Ableton).
We only use Live to trigger clips/loops and some 3 band EQs.

Cheers

[Dirt_Rock]

hi

I'm using version 6.5 and my mate is on 7 something. however we have tried to sync when we were both on version 6. We can get it to talk to each other but we cant get the two too sync properly. The bpm will just skip and drift the timing in and out making it useless for a live set. We wanna play plug in synths and modulate parameters on the fly. I am beginning to think that it is not possible to sync two machines together. If any one has any Ideas even on how we could achieve it with one computer without too much cpu load would be appreciated.

I herd something about syncing via smpte but not sure how to do it!?

Thanks alot 

[dri]

We played a tonne of gigs just using normal midi sync, with one system using and Ultralite as Master and the other an X-Station as Slave. There was an MPC, EFX, Bitstream, MPD16 and other stuff hanging off that chain also. Have a read of Ableton's "Getting the best out of midi" section in the manaul, before the Appendix at the back. Expect some movement in sync, but we did tests just syncing the systems and playing the same kick drums and listening for flam, which is the litmus test for the dance floor, and there were no issues at any of the Segue gigs that rig was used in to date. We originally thought we would need the MPC as master clock, but it just worked, so it sat as Slave. Magic!

Syncing via SMPTE? Pretty oldskool and relies on a timecode strip. You might like to try to sync via MTC rather than Midi Clock first. I'd also be looking at the interfaces being used before stressing about the DAW. But again, have a glance at that section of the manual. Good luck!

[rhythmboy]

Quote

Syncing via SMPTE? Pretty oldskool and relies on a timecode strip. You might like to try to sync via MTC rather than Midi Clock first. I'd also be looking at the interfaces being used before stressing about the DAW. But again, have a glance at that section of the manual. Good luck!

MTC is a MIDI format of SPMTE, they are basically the same thing, use the same frame rates etc. You do get a tighter lock with SMPTE/MTC than MIDI Clock, but not every software package or hardware unit supports it. If it's Live to Live on two computers then all good, set one as master and the other as slave. Avoid using the same MIDI output/input ports as used for real-time controllers, try to run separate if you can. MIDI is a serial format, running controllers on the same port as time-code may cause noticeable interruptions to the time-code every time you tweak a knob or fader.

If you have to sync up multiple devices, the best way to do this is run a 'star' config, sending the same code to all ports of a multi-port MIDI interface at once. Don't daisy-chain if you can avoid it as this causes delays with each step of the chain.

MTC slaves lock to the master every 1/4 frame of the frame rate. 30fps non-drop gives the finest resolution, just make sure all units are set to the same rate. MIDI clock locks 24 times per quarter note of the song's tempo. So at 120bpm MTC locks 120 times per second (4 x 30 frames) whereas MIDI clock only locks 48 times per second (2 x 24 ticks). Note that MTC is not tempo dependant, you always get 120 locks per second even if the tempo changes - this is a good thing 

Also tempo changes and looping song pointers/markers can wreak havoc with MIDI clock on many apps I've used - a common culprit is a bottleneck of MIDI that spews out randomly for about a bar when the loop has gone back to the start.

Lastly, between your interfaces run the shortest USB and MIDI cables you can - distance is a nemesis of time-code as it causes delays

That's not to say lots of people use MIDI clock successfully. Sync is a mysterious beast with lots of hit and miss...

hope it helps

[rhythmboy]

Oh - and another thing...

If both of your audio interfaces have word clock and/or s/pdif I/O you can make them even tighter by locking the sample rates of the laptops together. You run one as word clock master and the other as word clock slave. Do this is well as MIDI for the best of everything

However it requires precise setup - we can chat about this soon

[Dirt_Rock]

yeah we have kind of got it going but not as well as hoped.
We had it going with MIDI over Lan software with an Ethernet cable. However it seems we still need the MIDI cable hooked up to send any signal which i didnt think we needed :.
we can lock for a while, using this method, but it can randomly just drop back to the bpm skipping and out of sync. I even had the time line on the bottom of the arrange window shifting back and forwards at one point tonight while the bpm stayed locked at 126; where it should have been however the audio still drifted.  :dead:


.

[dri]

Quote

MTC is a MIDI format of SPMTE, they are basically the same thing, use the same frame rates etc.

You can probably guess i was thinking 1/4" SMPTE ports on the MPC2000, which means a "stripe". Not quite as easy as a few clicks in Abeltronz

[rhythmboy]

Quote

You can probably guess i was thinking 1/4" SMPTE ports on the MPC2000, which means a "stripe". Not quite as easy as a few clicks in Abeltronz

Aha that makes sense 

Love the sync on MPC2000: multi-format, flexible multi-port assignment and from my experience solid as a rock. And not too hard to set up either.