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Mixing your tracks on an analogue console or a digital control surface - what floats your boat and why?
Ive been pondering this for a while, Im not in any sort of financial position to objectively compare the 2 at the same time, but since mixing a track years ago on a beautiful old Tascam analogue desk Ive always wanted to own one. I know the routing, automation and flexibility isnt as cheaply available with analogue consoles (within reason anyway), but something about em (maybe it was just a really beautiful EQ) just makes me tingle. Mixing on a control surface or worse, with a mouse, just never really injects inspiration. THe main thing for me is inspiration, I need an inspiring environment to work in
Maybe Im just trying to justify a new Toft ATB16....( :-* ) but I want to set up a far more serious recording and mixing environment and am stuck as to which path to take.
Anyone made that decision? or have any grand words of wisdom?
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#2
Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:20 AM
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Old analog desks are awesome.
I'm going to pick on up soon actually. Like you said, they are warm and "colourful" and can bring a track to life, no question.
They look awesome and sound awesome, like you said the only downfall is less routing options compared to new digital desks, and are a prick to carry round for live use, and often involve maintenance. An old pro desk, is also cheaper than a new mixer.
I'd recommend the Tascam M series, and there is an awesome Studiomaster on ebay at the moment(edit: sold). All the old British desks are cool, like the Soundcrafts for example.
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem
How much do you want to spend? How many channels do you/will you need? Aux sends? etc.
I'm after one of these bad boys: Tascam M-320 or anything similar.
I'm going to pick on up soon actually. Like you said, they are warm and "colourful" and can bring a track to life, no question.
They look awesome and sound awesome, like you said the only downfall is less routing options compared to new digital desks, and are a prick to carry round for live use, and often involve maintenance. An old pro desk, is also cheaper than a new mixer.
I'd recommend the Tascam M series, and there is an awesome Studiomaster on ebay at the moment(edit: sold). All the old British desks are cool, like the Soundcrafts for example.
http://cgi.ebay.com....1QQcmdZViewItem
How much do you want to spend? How many channels do you/will you need? Aux sends? etc.
I'm after one of these bad boys: Tascam M-320 or anything similar.
#3
Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:27 AM
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Well unfortunately mate i think most of the industry are in the same boat as you. Personally, im a complete fence sitter on this one 
I see the benefits of both, the automation, cheapness and recallability of 'in the box' mixing with the beauty, sound and experience mixing on large format consoles. If i had my way id have pro tools (with all the waves mercury bundle of course ) which then runs out to a large format, inline console like the toft for final mixing and summing. then maybe even tracking to 2 track tape to send off to mastering. all well....i can always dream.
But i must comment on your choice of the 16 channel toft atb. with 16 channels you'll still more than likely have to sub-mix to stems in what ever daw your using and then run those stems to the console for final mix-down so you would still have to do a lot of mixing with a mouse. but hey that sounds pretty good to me!
I see the benefits of both, the automation, cheapness and recallability of 'in the box' mixing with the beauty, sound and experience mixing on large format consoles. If i had my way id have pro tools (with all the waves mercury bundle of course ) which then runs out to a large format, inline console like the toft for final mixing and summing. then maybe even tracking to 2 track tape to send off to mastering. all well....i can always dream. But i must comment on your choice of the 16 channel toft atb. with 16 channels you'll still more than likely have to sub-mix to stems in what ever daw your using and then run those stems to the console for final mix-down so you would still have to do a lot of mixing with a mouse. but hey that sounds pretty good to me!
#4
Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:49 AM
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Ramos - 16:8:2 format, I dont really have alot of outboard gear so 2-4 aux sends is ample. The main requirement is that I want to be able to close my eyes and actually mix, not hunch over a mouse staring at a screen, so a musical EQ, 8 bus, 16 channel (24/32 is just gettiong physically too big...) etc, nothing incredibly fancy with routing options. Budget - thats a hard one,the Toft is probably pushing it, put it that way.
Tommy - Most of the music i record is reasonably simplistic so I would rarely have more than 16 tracks anyway (if theres more, usually just once of hits/sounds that can mixed easily enough). Goner are the days when I had 30+ tracks. Eased it back with much more guitar playing and drumkits, less synths and programed beats.
Im moving in with the GF and will gain a room, which will become dedicated to recording, so some acoustic treatment, proper stereo imaging and a nice mixer are on the shopping list - hmm, and lots of cable.
Tommy - Most of the music i record is reasonably simplistic so I would rarely have more than 16 tracks anyway (if theres more, usually just once of hits/sounds that can mixed easily enough). Goner are the days when I had 30+ tracks. Eased it back with much more guitar playing and drumkits, less synths and programed beats.
Im moving in with the GF and will gain a room, which will become dedicated to recording, so some acoustic treatment, proper stereo imaging and a nice mixer are on the shopping list - hmm, and lots of cable.
#5
Posted 05 May 2008 - 01:52 AM
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The studiomaster would have been perfect for you...
#7
Posted 05 May 2008 - 12:36 PM
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Quote
I have one of those, except it's in roadcase, so no cushion for me only sore elbows... Nice EQ (sweepable bass). 8 bus works a treat with an 8 channel soundcard.
Easy to work on. I didn't think studiomasters are that good.
There was a Tascam (or Teac) 15 on ebay a month or so ago that went for a song. The problem is it's 200kgs!!
The Allen&Heath System8 series are quite nice too.
Cheers
#9
Posted 09 May 2008 - 02:57 PM
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You'd be better going for a 3700 or 3500 sereies tascam from that era. The 3700 has a built in cash register and Meters for each channel.
http://www.xs4all.nl...fe/mixcatok.jpg
And one a little closer
http://www.xs4all.nl...fe/mixcatok.jpg
And one a little closer
#10
Posted 09 May 2008 - 04:48 PM
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Gold Punk
automation is v.cool in digital desks, i loved flicking through tracks when i was working in the sound studio at rmit and watching all the faders jump around, but your going to want to warm your music up at some stage. whether you decide to go for a nice old analogue desk or just get some analogue eqs and filters and add them into your chain is up to you.
i think the 2nd option is what i would dive into if i had the cashwa
i think the 2nd option is what i would dive into if i had the cashwa
#11
Posted 10 May 2008 - 12:51 AM
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automation is v.cool in digital desks, i loved flicking through tracks when i was working in the sound studio at rmit and watching all the faders jump around, but your going to want to warm your music up at some stage. whether you decide to go for a nice old analogue desk or just get some analogue eqs and filters and add them into your chain is up to you.
i think the 2nd option is what i would dive into if i had the cashwa
i think the 2nd option is what i would dive into if i had the cashwa
Yeah flying faders and flashing lights dont interest me, although I can appreciate the automation on digital desks. Im after a more natural mixing experience, one that I dont think can be rally captured with a digital console in my price range.
Bob - you're on my wavelength brother
#12
Posted 10 May 2008 - 01:39 AM
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"Organised Noise"
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Yeah flying faders and flashing lights dont interest me,
You know you want it...
http://www.smartav.net/
One could just about mix with their mind on that thing. And all Australian too!
#13
Posted 10 May 2008 - 03:09 PM
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Beam me up, Scotty? :wtf:
That is the antithesis of my requirements ;D
That is the antithesis of my requirements ;D
#14
Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:11 PM
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Generally I find analogue has a warmer sound. It really depends on what you're going for.
If you want a cleaner, more "correct" sound - digital is the way to go.
But analogue is warmer and more "real" sounding, if that makes any sense..
If you want a cleaner, more "correct" sound - digital is the way to go.
But analogue is warmer and more "real" sounding, if that makes any sense..
#15
Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:47 AM
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"Organised Noise"
But real life is analog.
So is analog warmer than real life?
Hmmm...
If we substitute the term warmer for larger, then perhaps it starts to fit?
That is, analog appeases our minds eye's perception of what sound should sound like, rather than how it actually sounds?
So it's the largeness of analog, where sound tends to sound larger than life, that makes it so appealing?
Personally, I reckon the analog = warmth, digital = cold analogies are tending to wear thin after 30 years of CDs, so a fresh way to describe the (supposed?) differences is needed.
Thoughts? 8)
So is analog warmer than real life?
Hmmm...
If we substitute the term warmer for larger, then perhaps it starts to fit?
That is, analog appeases our minds eye's perception of what sound should sound like, rather than how it actually sounds?
So it's the largeness of analog, where sound tends to sound larger than life, that makes it so appealing?
Personally, I reckon the analog = warmth, digital = cold analogies are tending to wear thin after 30 years of CDs, so a fresh way to describe the (supposed?) differences is needed.
Thoughts? 8)
#16
Posted 22 May 2010 - 12:05 PM
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Sound Cunt Extraordinaire
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WTF are you people smoking? Seriously, Phil... stop smoking the Enjo samples.
See, large is equally as confusing as warm. IMO, a warm signal is generally lacking in highs and has less clarity about the mid range. That doesn't describe a good analogue desk. Large seems more like a hot signal or just a loud source. It could mean more dynamic range... but again, that's not really true of an analogue desk.
Analogue is about anomalies. Harmonics, distortion, compression, delay, non-linear gain... things that 'colour' your signal and add some new element the original source didn't have. Digital has it's own set of anomalies but they are increasingly more controlled. There's less 'colour' to a signal unless you specifically apply things to the signal chain to add that colour.
Both have applications depending on the sound you're looking for... but IMO it's more important to understand what things are being done to your signal by which device and use that to get a result.
See, large is equally as confusing as warm. IMO, a warm signal is generally lacking in highs and has less clarity about the mid range. That doesn't describe a good analogue desk. Large seems more like a hot signal or just a loud source. It could mean more dynamic range... but again, that's not really true of an analogue desk.
Analogue is about anomalies. Harmonics, distortion, compression, delay, non-linear gain... things that 'colour' your signal and add some new element the original source didn't have. Digital has it's own set of anomalies but they are increasingly more controlled. There's less 'colour' to a signal unless you specifically apply things to the signal chain to add that colour.
Both have applications depending on the sound you're looking for... but IMO it's more important to understand what things are being done to your signal by which device and use that to get a result.
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