56 replies to this topic

[Vagrant Producer]

For the first time in ages I have been able to sit down in front of my lappy and just program for hours/days with no distractions - however i am suffering from massive ear/listening fatigue (ie everything sounds like shit and bugs the hell out of me only to get up the next morning to find it actually sounds ok)..

So I thought it might be interesting to find out what people do when they are suffering fatigue or what techniques do people employ to avoid it?

[AnthonyEhsani]

when i suffer it..

get away from sound.. as quick as possible..

avoiding it? there is no avoiding it.. lol .. try plugs or lowering the volume or something i guess.. or have short breaks.. for your ears...

[Jester_Fu]

There is avoiding it - it's why good studio monitors and headphone are sooo damn expensive.

And there in lies the answer - a good set of monitors or headphones are really the sort that provide a decent response BUT, more importantly, don't fatigue your hearing. My SA200 Spendors are superb, for their price, in this regard. The detail is in the sound, not the volume. A lot of people think some of the higher end monitors sound 'flat' or don't have bottom end because they're use to a physical reaction to the sound, IMO. You lose this with good monitors... but you have to listen for the sounds.

The counter to this is some really flat products fatigue your ears by making you listen too hard. There's a fine balance between achieving a good distribution of frequencies and at a suitable audible level.

Think hard about this - if listening fatigue was something you could not 'design out' in a monitor, then it'd be impossible for professional engineers and producers to spend full 14 hour days making a mix! So, you've discovered the first reason why a $4k pair of monitors is an investment in your production future - you'll listen to them for 14 hours straight and still be willing to listen some more It's never something you'll get with entry level products, no matter how good you think they sound.

[Captain Terrific]

How bout 'Room Fatigue' from a bad sounding room rather than a bad set of speakers?

[Jester_Fu]

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How bout 'Room Fatigue' from a bad sounding room rather than a bad set of speakers?

Yep, IMO, it's got more to do with intensity of sounds - and that can mean one sound compared to another. Resonance can be particularly bad for it, but in most instances i've never found a room more fatiguing than the speakers in it.

[beatrunner]

@vagrant producer: you say you find yourself in the situation that you are making sound and think "man, this is shit". then the next day you re-listen and then it sounds okay for you..!?

my main-problem is / was exactly the opposit! when i had sound-sessions with my friend (putting together tracks etc.) then we mostly say "wow...what a phat track etc.etc.". then we go to sleep. the next day we come again to the studio and re-listen to the "track"!

Mostly we just say: damn, how could we have listened to this crap for about 6 hours the day before?....mostly, we were not able to find something "nice sounding" in the track the next day....

this was just a few months ago....and after reading all the sos articles about monitoring, i learned not to listen to my tracks too loud in tracking-stage.

for me: just normal "domestical sound levels" now and voilà: what sounded like crap the day before, sounded crap the next day - aaaand...what sounded "wow" the day before sounded also "wow" the next day....

me thinks, it's also a question of ear-fatigue...right? do you also have such experiences?

[Luko]

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i maintain my passion now by no longer taking my mp3 player to school/work etc

i reckon if im innundated with it 24/7 ill reach true jadeness faster

i kinda agree with this and do it too, i notice when i dont listen to music all day at work i am keener to boot up the pc and work on stuff when i get home

[rhythmboy]

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For the first time in ages I have been able to sit down in front of my lappy and just program for hours/days with no distractions - however i am suffering from massive ear/listening fatigue (ie everything sounds like shit and bugs the hell out of me only to get up the next morning to find it actually sounds ok)..

So I thought it might be interesting to find out what people do when they are suffering fatigue or what techniques do people employ to avoid it?

The fatigue exists on two levels - there's the physical fatigue of constant pressure on the eardrums and the little bones that follow it. Then there's the mental fatigue of concentrating on extremely repetitive material and/or specific frequency bands for a long time. You brain is tiring as much as your ears.

Given this, it doesn't matter so much whether it's the speakers or the room or the music itself, your ears simply respond to whatever vibrations get detected.

Well synergised studios with well balanced rooms, speakers and good source sounds, treat our ears and brains nicely - the evenness of the spectrum and the smoothness of the sound waves demand less effort from our brain.

Poorly synergised studios demand more effort from our brain as we try to will the sound into something we'd prefer to hear, either with EQ or with our minds. An uneven spectrum excites the ears in an uneven way, hammering certain regions of the basilar membrane more than others. After a while your brain tries to recalibrate and will internally reduce or increase the level of certain frequencies - why you hear bottom end all wrong after a few hours. And unclean signal from poor amplification, noisy desks etc is not a smooth signal and is simply more tiring to listen to.

My antidote? Like for a lot of the other guys here, if the ears have been working hard then give them a rest. I have extended periods of as much silence as I can manage given my surrounds. I never play music in the car, for example. Also try to get my room, my speakers and my sounds all as even and clean as possible.

[beatrunner]

top answer rhythmboy....

[Johnvanraalte]

I hear lots about sounds and their duration, I.E. I should only listen to something at 90dB for up to half hour before permanent hearing damage is done. or at 125dB for 5 minutes, that type of thing. BUT no one ever tells you in a set period of time.

So does that mean if I go to a club and sit in front of a cranking system all night for 5 hours with 2 minute breaks every 5 minutes that I will be OK?? There seems to me to be no down time limits?? So is that just me, that I have been listening to the business end of things, and not the rest of the equation, or are there no specifications on that.

Thought this was important to mention.

[Jester_Fu]

Jebus chroost. Are you just digging threads up from 2 years ago for shits and giggles or have your ISP busted you for downloading movies illegally again?

I think you'll find the time varies for every person, just as the original sensitivity of your individual hearing does. I think you'll also find it's cumulative. You may have instant loss, but it's certain there will be instant damage. Given that hearing is one of those things that doesn't fix itself, any exposure to high levels of sound will cause damage. The longer the exposure or the more repetition to the exposure, the greater the damage.

[rhythmboy]

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I hear lots about sounds and their duration, I.E. I should only listen to something at 90dB for up to half hour before permanent hearing damage is done. or at 125dB for 5 minutes, that type of thing. BUT no one ever tells you in a set period of time.

This chart for US occupational noise standards provides a reasonable indicator - you can try to look at the maths - not too hard actually, or just scroll down to the table, that shows A-weighted SPL on the left and recommended time exposure on the right.

http://www.osha.gov/...DARDS&p_id=9736

For example, in the US it is deemed safe to be exposed to 85dB for 16 hours, 90dB for 8 hours, 95dB for 4, 100dB for 2... basically halve the time for every 5dB increase.

At a typical 110dB nightclub dancefloor level, 30 mins is recommended  :-


Now we're talking about industrial and occupational noise here, not music, but as a general guide it's worth considering.

As far as rest breaks in between go, and how they affect your ability to dive in for more noise assaultage, the benchmark is 'within a 24 hour period'. So in theory after 30 mins on the dancefloor you should go home and come back tomorrow at the same time...

So no matter what rests you have, you can't exceed the total time exposure to high SPL for any given day. I imagine the 24 hour period also accounts for the restorative value of 6-8 hours sleep, which is not the same as simply having quiet time-out.

[Captain Terrific]

sorry, can you speak up a bit?

[freak-guitar]

I find it's the same as staring at a computer screen for hours at a time. And it's worse when both your eyes & hears get fatigued at the same time! As rhythmboy said, your brain gets fatigued along with everything else. So i usually take regular breaks every hour or two & sit outside away from noise, technology, etc & have a cold drink. And if i come back to it & i still can't concentrate, i finish up for the day. No point in pushing yourself. You'll only do more damage & it won't be very constructive work when you're tired anyway.

[Funkthesis]

Every hour we need to take breaks from looking on a screen and go an focus on the distant horizon for about 4 minutes so we get our focus back.. On a triple J podcast DR Karl Kruszelnicki discusses this.  I found that staring at a computer screen whilst DJ'ing or operating lighting programs in a club which is quite dark for 5hrs at a time over a 1yr period really damaged my vision and consequently I'm no longer 20:20

[Spectrum]

^^^ Interesting, and I wonder if it was particularly the bright screen vs dark surroundings that hammered your eyes? Is it just focus that was affected? Or peripheral vision too? Love Dr Karl!

Nothing to do with fatigue, but a young woman we recently hired was born with no ear drums. She had some hearing, but had learnt to lip read, and with speech coaching was able to manage vowels reasonably well. Then around aged 15, doctors took skin from her cheeks and manufactured ear drums for her. The more I think about it, the more it seems near impossible to do (stretch the skin, keep it alive) that I wonder if she was pulling our legs. Anyway, fascinating concept. Apparently she hated it post operation at first, things then sounded weird, plane trips now hurt (no equalisation issues up until now), but she could finally be allowed to go swimming.

[smendez71]

When I'm suffering from ear fatigue I usually try and pop my ears by yawning alot, and if that doesn't work I'll try to put in some ear buds to block out sound and have a good nap to reset my ear drums. If that doesn't work then I suggest going to a doctor cause that may be some serious ear issues.

[jordan.r]

ive often sat infront of the computer for hours and refused to open itunes because there is nothing i want to trouble my ears with.

its caused through frustration, and i feel like an dishonest muso..

but i cant lie, having a brake from music is really nice.

sometimes listening to the sounds around in your enviroment can be so much nicer.

John Cage. Smart man.

[jordan.r]

oh and thats not a quote from him at all that i know of..