7 replies to this topic

[SilverStreak]

Dudes,

I have an XL-1 turbo rompler synth that i just upgradedwith a used 'Beat Garden' rom. Now the problem I'm having is I can't access the factory patches through Cubase. I can access all the 4 x 128 user patches but none of the factory ones inc 'XL-1 lead and Beat Garden'. That being said I can access the sounds through the front panel etc etc. YES I have RTFM and theres nothing in there about installing roms or anything...

Cubase will see bank0 -bank3 user patches but as soon as I go to bank4 I get a 'not installed' message on the front of the XL-1

Do I have to copy patches from th eroms down to the 4x128 user patches in order to see them in Cubase or is there something I'm not doin?

I know Spectrum has a fully tricked up Proteus so he should probly know what I'm on about

[Spectrum]

Hey mate,

Two ways you can go from here:

1) Manually tell Cubase which patch you want it to recall (using MIDI program changes), however, this won't reveal the patch name itself in Cubase.

2) Create and/or edit the patch name document Cubase uses to display patches (which also uses the same MIDI program change commands embedded in the file).

Let's go with the first, simplest option to get you up and running...

1) Call up the patch you want using the XL-1's front panel.

2) Press the "Audition" panel on the XL-1's front panel.

3) Note the MSB and LSB values displayed on the LCD. These are the program change commands that correspond with that particular patch. The MSB relates to the ROM and the LSB relates to the bank. Get this wrong in Cubase, and you'll get the 'not installed' on the XL-1 display. In your example, there's simply no "bank 4" for the particular ROM it's attempting to access.

4) MSB/LSB eh, well what's that all about, you ask?! Well aside from standing for Most/Least Significant Bit, these are continuous controllers (cc##), not unlike the controller used for Filter Cutoff (cc74) or Filter Resonance (cc71). Now I'm not sure how Cubase labels things (Jester? Anyone?), however, in Pro Tools, in the program/patch change/select window, rather than displaying fields labelled MSB and LSB, it shows fields marked cc00 and cc32. All you need to know is MSB = cc00 and LSB = cc32.

5) Still with me?

6) So putting it altogether, take the MSB/LSB values from the XL-1's front panel after you hit "audition" for the current patch, and copy them into the cc00 and cc32 (if they're not already labelled as MSB/LSB) in Cubase's patch select window.

7) Sorted! Looking back at that waffle, I could have probably skipped steps 1 thru 5 and you'd still have got it.  :-[

Let me know if that gets you started, and we can tackle your patch name files later down the track. And looking foward to a review on the Beat Garden.  :cans:

[Spectrum]

Now if only every synth made things as easy as the E-MU P2k series by displaying MSB/LSB/cc00/cc32 at the press of a button. Really REALLY handy to work stuff like this out.

[SilverStreak]

^^^
Champion!

I have that sussed now, but I have the problem now of having to manually type MSB:067 LSB:0/1/2/3 for every freakin preset, which as you know is 4x 127..........pain in the ass! Maybe there some global way to it, but thats a question for the Cubase forum

Review of Beat Garden coming soon, so far its got heaps of new drums for me to use (wow who'd have thought) and some spooky effects I really dig.

[Jester_Fu]

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4) MSB/LSB eh, well what's that all about, you ask?! Well aside from standing for Most/Least Significant Bit, these are continuous controllers (cc##), not unlike the controller used for Filter Cutoff (cc74) or Filter Resonance (cc71). Now I'm not sure how Cubase labels things (Jester? Anyone?), however, in Pro Tools, in the program/patch change/select window, rather than displaying fields labelled MSB and LSB, it shows fields marked cc00 and cc32. All you need to know is MSB = cc00 and LSB = cc32.

Actually, MSB = Most Significant BYTE and LSB = Least Significant BYTE. You're talking hex, which is 2 * 4bit characters making up 1 * 8 bit byte. The valid hex values are from 0 to F, which is 0 to 15 in decimal.

In Cubase, you open up a midi track, and most likely by default the patch CC's aren't set up. So, you select the bottom control area, which most often defaults to velocity.  Click on the little box that says "Velocity", and select setup from the options. CC 0 and CC 32 are labeled BankSel MSB and BankSel LSB respectively. Add these to your drop down listu sing the "<<<" button. You can then enter your patch into the control window below velocity.

There might be a better way to do it??

[Spectrum]

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Actually, MSB = Most Significant BYTE and LSB = Least Significant BYTE. You're talking hex, which is 2 * 4bit characters making up 1 * 8 bit byte. The valid hex values are from 0 to F, which is 0 to 15 in decimal.

oops!  :-[ After reading your correction, I'm thinking yeah, I agree and that's what I meant. Byte=word, and it's the 'word' at the head/end of the stream of data we're referring to, rather than a single bit.

And then I just look it up, and discover that in general computer terms, MSB/LSB also applies to bits (as well as bytes):
http://en.wikipedia....significant_bit
http://whatis.techta...i901151,00.html

And then I look up it up with reference to MIDI bank selects, and I see it as bits:
http://www.sweetwate...find=BankSelect
https://www.pjrc.com...drums/midi.html

One must have faith in the synth/sequencer manufacturers (and Jester) though for sticking by the facts (ie. bytes):  :cans:
http://www.rolandus....of_terms.aspx#B
http://www.kurzweilm...ort.html?Id=182
http://www.cakewalk....sp#Normal%20BSM

Then Rane goes back to bits:
http://www.rane.com/par-m.html

Gotta love the intramaweb for consistancy.  :bang:

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CC 0 and CC 32 are labeled BankSel MSB and BankSel LSB respectively.

Well that makes it easy to match up with the E-MU modules then (which also speak in MSB/LSB terminology rather than cc00/cc32).

[Spectrum]

Quote

^^^
Champion!

I have that sussed now, but I have the problem now of having to manually type MSB:067 LSB:0/1/2/3 for every freakin preset, which as you know is 4x 127..........pain in the ass! Maybe there some global way to it, but thats a question for the Cubase forum

Cool, sounds like you're on the right track.

MSB=067 is the Beat Garden ROM
LSB=0,1,2,3 are the four banks within the ROMs
Program Change 0-128 are the 128 patches within each bank.

And great that (it sounds like) you're putting together your patch name lists. Have you copied the patch names from a downloaded PDF or something? Trust you're not typing them out by hand.

Re bank selects, my (CherryPicker) patch name editor program asks you what the MSB/LSB/cc00/ccc32 is when one hits the 'new bank' button. This populates the respective fields with the right settings, so saving one from copy/paste/paste/paste down the page.

There must be a similar system for Cubase or I might start saying:

Pro Tools MIDI > Cubase MIDI

...and surely that can't be true! ;D

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Review of Beat Garden coming soon, so far its got heaps of new drums for me to use (wow who'd have thought) and some spooky effects I really dig.

Awesome. Pleased to hear it's bringing some more cards to your table. When Rusty alerted me to that ROM up-for-sale, I did a quick bit of research on its original release. I was under the understanding there was a module done with 2 x 32MB ROMs in it, one of them being the Beat Garden, as well as something else. Just can't think/find out what it is now.

Any ideas? 

[Jester_Fu]

Yes. MSB and LSB are more commonly used to refer to bits in the digital domain, especially when you're developing code. Particularly communications code, like i did for a couple of years. But, muso's being muso's... they just don't get it and make up their own shit that flys in the convention used by everyone else