52 replies to this topic

[Cheyne]

So I suppose Sequencers are the right spot for this thread  ,  but whats your opinion on the best hardware drum machines ? ..

Iv almost bought a 606 on eBay in the last week ...  then I saw an 808  ...  and it got me thinking , do i really want one of these ? .. or do I really just want to own an 808 ? ... and would I get use out of it ? .. 


having never owned or used one , but knowing the sounds , im thinking id like some advice ...    Who still uses an 808 or 606 here ? ...  and how do you like it ?


Cheers

[SilverStreak]

For me personally I love my 606, I've never owned an 808. I used to own a 606 with the indiv out mod but I sold it....a move I regretted. So I went out and bought another one, this time with 808 kik, snare decay mods but only single out. Its a cheap drum machine but so individual in character, (show me a drum machine with the same rides as a 606..lol)

Love to get an 808 or 909 one day

[Jester_Fu]

I'd say you're in the "i really just want to own an 808" category. I mean, how often do you use an 808 sample, or a VSTi emulating the 808 or 909? Once, twice a year? That's about it for me...

I nearly bought an 808 and a 909 10 years ago... when the prices were a little more reasonable than now... but i opted for a Novation Drum Station. Even studio muso's and 'seasoned' fan boy 909/808 owners are hard pressed to A/B the difference. Yeah, i don't have the 'oh so fun' sequencer... but would you really use it when running Ableton/Cubase/Logic/ProTools??

And you know what - it's the least used bit of kit in my studio right now. Why? Because i'm fuckin' sick of 808 and 909 sounds. They have their place... but FFS, every tom and dickless harry has been using them since the late 80's for trance.. um... trance.. and oooh... a little more trance. Oh... i forgotted about all those truely original hip-hop produces each seekingthier unique trade mark 808 sound As far as i'm concerned, 20+ years of electronic muso's caining these things has brought their audio facination to an end.

Yeah, as a collector i'd still 'envy' anyone who can whip their dick out and say they've got one in mint nick... but as someone trying to produce music, and trying to find a new, different and original sound... i've said good by to them, and gone in search of something i haven't heard so often over the past 20 years.

808/909 :pissingmonkey:

But don't let my jaded opinion stop you from cashing up a current owner ;D

[Cheyne]

Fair comments mate ...  I feel what your saying ... i Think i just want to own one ...  but on the cheap ..    I dont want to fork out much for one ...

But I suppose the money is better spent on something else ...    Crush my hopes and dreams why dont you Jester ?  ;D ...

[Jester_Fu]

Mah, it's just an opinion. They're not one of my 'must have' bits of kit, and part of the reason is use. There's a lot of that going around - it's a gear pissing contest - i just don't buy in. IMO, you'd be better off buying a sampler VSTi and a controller and a couple of new plugin's or a VA if you want hardware. If it's really, really ,really a sound you do and would use - fuckin' go for it. You wont regret it. If it's that "oooh.. .and 808/909" feeling, you'll be disappointed you didn't spend your cash on something more useful within your current studio.

As far as the whole "fun to mod" thing goes - :wtf: is with paying huge amounts of cash for something you're going to hack apart? If it's a classic, a true classic, then you want it original. If it's not, then why so expensive? You'd be better off with something like a x0xb0x (yeah... not a drum machine, but cool none the less... and a sequencer) or have a look over http://www.hoohahrec.../links/diy.html or even go directly to http://members.lycos...9090/frames.htm (909 with no sequencer). I mean... all the fun of building something yourself... you can tweak it apart until your heart is content, and you wont drop much cash doing it.

Mah... end of another rant. I'm going to find mungo and go make babies

[Spectrum]

Quote

I'm going to find mungo and go make babies

(Another) post reported. 

[Spectrum]

Yeah, I'm with Jester on this one. In this day and age, I'd be going for the mint collector's item, rather than tinkering around with a clapped out, hacked-up mod job.

Not sure I've ever heard the 606 for real (just samples), and the 808 has never grabbed me (personal taste). So that leaves (for me) the 909 which has been done, and done again.

Still, the 909 kick is *the* techno kick, and *that* open hat still slices through a track like nothing else, the whole package brings nothing new to the table after 25 years.

I'd be bored with it as much as I bored with Rebirth at the end of the last century I think.

'Course, if they were selling for less than a few hundred...

[SilverStreak]

I only paid $200 for my modded 606. So it was cheap (full analogue )and sounds kikass when I want to do some sync stuff with a mc202 which can then be converted back to midi clock via msq-100 and then down the midi chain we go........>>> samples are fine but they're NOT the same.

hence my  post about slaving cubase

[no-fi]

christ on a bike.

I used to own a drumstation years ago (they're cool, handy things) and it sounds NOTHING LIKE a real 808. Drumstation's 909 emulation is a lot better, but still a bit weak.

Maybe that doesn't matter to most people, but if you do want that real raw 808 boom/thwap like you hear in all that fun old electro/hiphop you're not going to get it from a drumstation. sorry.

I know I sound like a wanker saying this, but it really is the truth - Once youve heard an 808 running alongside a drumstation, you never hear the drumstation the same way again.

And the thing is, maybe you'd use 808 sounds in your music more, if you had a real one, rather than weak immitations? thats the thing with using an identifiable "sound cliche" - if you're going to use it, you gotta use it loud and proud, and right. a real 808 sounds right being an 808 (even though they all sound massively different from each other) any emulation of 808 I've ever heard sounds wrong.

If you want 808 sounds, and don't have an 808, I really recommend you stick with samples (and maybe a sampling drum machine to drive them!!?)

Anyway - back to the question - I think current prices like $1000+ for an 808 is a bit silly. I wouldn't pay $1000+ for one. You gotta really want what it does to pay that for it. That said, I wouldn't SELL my 808 for $1000, either. I'd have to be offered a lot more in order to part with my baby now I got her....

606 is a really nice drum machine. so is the 707. but they're both a lot more limited - with the only real drum tone control you have being the master volume knob... 7078 has been a real sleeper for me - it does one thing really well, and I guess I didn't appreciate it, till I developed an appreciation for the one thing it can do....


Now - back to the sampleing drum machine option I touched on above - I bought a korg ES1mk2 the other day, and I'm getting quite into it. It's a really simple thing, but heaps of fun. It has a bunch of flashy lights, pitch and volume knobe for the samoples, and the sequenced FX things you can do are pretty cool, too (thhough fx quality is bad)  There's one "2nd hand as new" on ebay right now for $250 - and I'm really surprised no-one's grabed it yet.

[Jester_Fu]

Quote

christ on a bike.

I used to own a drumstation years ago (they're cool, handy things) and it sounds NOTHING LIKE a real 808. Drumstation's 909 emulation is a lot better, but still a bit weak.

Maybe that doesn't matter to most people, but if you do want that real raw 808 boom/thwap like you hear in all that fun old electro/hiphop you're not going to get it from a drumstation. sorry.

I know I sound like a wanker saying this, but it really is the truth - Once youve heard an 808 running alongside a drumstation, you never hear the drumstation the same way again.

And the thing is, maybe you'd use 808 sounds in your music more, if you had a real one, rather than weak immitations? thats the thing with using an identifiable "sound cliche" - if you're going to use it, you gotta use it loud and proud, and right. a real 808 sounds right being an 808 (even though they all sound massively different from each other) any emulation of 808 I've ever heard sounds wrong.

Well, i A/B'd before i bought... and i left with the Drumstation. I'd agree with you saying the Bass Station sounds nothing like a real 303 in stock form, but i don't agree with the comments on the Drum Station.

I rarely ever use sampled 808's or sound trying to emulate an 808. If i wanted that... i'd use the Drum Station, and 99% of people would never know the difference. I think a lot of the variation comes with sequencing the sounds. The sequencers, while i think they're nothing special from an application point of view, are quite unique in both the 808 and 909... IMO both sequencers impact the sounds. Sooo, if you want to think like you're sequencing on a 808/909, you can get the DS very close... so close 99% of people would never ever know the difference.

That said - fuckin' good to have you onboard here!  :eatadick:

[Jester_Fu]

Quote

I only paid $200 for my modded 606. So it was cheap (full analogue )and sounds kikass when I want to do some sync stuff with a mc202 which can then be converted back to midi clock via msq-100 and then down the midi chain we go........>>> samples are fine but they're NOT the same.

hence my  post about slaving cubase

That's a good buy, and a fun toy. Enjoy.

[Cheyne]

606 for $200 !  ...  Lucky you

[no-fi]

Quote

Well, i A/B'd before i bought... and i left with the Drumstation. I'd agree with you saying the Bass Station sounds nothing like a real 303 in stock form, but i don't agree with the comments on the Drum Station.

last time we had this conversation, I'm sure you said you had OWNED an 808, and sold it cause you didn't like it.

now you're saying you just A/B'd in a shop?

next time we have this conversation you'll say there had been an 808 in the same shop as the drumstation you bought, but it sold a week before you went in the shop, so you didn't actually see it. but you licked the shelf upon which it had been sitting. and the shelf didn't taste special at all, after having an 808 sitting on it.

the time after that when we have this conversation again, you'll tell us that when you bought the drumstation, the sales guy said a friend of a friend of his had an 808 once, but traded it for some awesome bush buds one day... and although hasn't actually ever seen a drumstation before, he read a magazine article abbout it and reckons the drumstation would be, like, totally identical, maaaan..... cos, like, it says 808 on it, and has a knob that says SNAPPY!

Quote

I rarely ever use sampled 808's or sound trying to emulate an 808.

plenty of music styles don't need an 808. I don't really hear it in electro house or electro breaks,  or prog, or trance, or plenty of other things... so depending on what you produce, I'd say the exact sound can be irrelevant. That's nice for you, if that's the case. but it's not the same case for everyone.

Quote

If i wanted that... i'd use the Drum Station, and 99% of people would never know the difference. I think a lot of the variation comes with sequencing the sounds.

I dunno if 808s were always like this, but any 808 I've ever played with, no 2 sounds they make are ever the same. they're always drifting, changing, ever so slightly. nothing really to do with the sequencer. though the accent function is really nice, and definately does some cool things in a sequence.

Quote

The sequencers, while i think they're nothing special from an application point of view, are quite unique in both the 808 and 909... IMO both sequencers impact the sounds. Sooo, if you want to think like you're sequencing on a 808/909, you can get the DS very close... so close 99% of people would never ever know the difference.

you could use a basketball, a jackhammer, and a shaved hamster in a bucket of crisco in place of 808 drums, and plenty of people still wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That still doesn't mean you wouldn't deserve to be arrested for animal cruelty!

Quote

That said - fuckin' good to have you onboard here!  :eatadick:

thanks. it's nice to be here! :eatadick:

[Spectrum]

no-fi and jester, oh, how I love you guys! :eatadick:

[Jester_Fu]

Quote

last time we had this conversation, I'm sure you said you had OWNED an 808, and sold it cause you didn't like it.

now you're saying you just A/B'd in a shop?

next time we have this conversation you'll say there had been an 808 in the same shop as the drumstation you bought, but it sold a week before you went in the shop, so you didn't actually see it. but you licked the shelf upon which it had been sitting. and the shelf didn't taste special at all, after having an 808 sitting on it.

Nope, i don't recall ever saying i owned an 808 and sold it. I might have said that about a 303. Same with 909 - looked at it, but never bought it. Same with MPC's... never owned one, but had a couple on 'long term loan'.

I never A/B'd in a shop. I knew a guy who was a producer and midi guru/keyboard player of some repute (unlike myself)... and he was selling kit on the side to keep cash flow going. He had 808 and 909 in his studio, was selling them because he didn't use them any more... but also had just taken on sale of new Novation products. Sooo... i got to take the options home for a couple of weeks... and i parted cash for the Novation, not the rolands. Partly because it was cheaper than the 2 other bits of kit, partly because i couldn't really pick the difference... and partly because i liked the fact i could set up a drum sound and get the same sound next time.

And the shelf did taste special.... it'd been used by viring cubans to manufacture patch cables for the past 2 weeks.

Quote

you could use a basketball, a jackhammer, and a shaved hamster in a bucket of crisco in place of 808 drums, and plenty of people still wouldn't be able to tell the difference. That still doesn't mean you wouldn't deserve to be arrested for animal cruelty!

MK... I think some people need to be arrest for using the real thing. IMO, it's aural assualt.

[Cheyne]

;D 

[SilverStreak]

Quote

606 for $200 !  ...  Lucky you

606's go for between $200-$300 these days, but you want to make sure you have some means of syncing it via midi. Otherwise it'll sit there and collect dust.

[no-fi]

yeah - a very important thing to consider with almost any old analogue gear, is you need the equipment to drive it, too. Though once you have it, if you get something that's got a fair bit of flexability, you're OK for running multiple bits of old gear..

Quote

and partly because i liked the fact i could set up a drum sound and get the same sound next time.

....there's really not that much in-depth programming to be done on an 808 or 909 you know. Sometimes I think that the availability of preset patches on modern gear has made people a bit.... well..... weak minded.... when it comes to just making sounds they need.

I mean, you could spend 10 minutes bumping up and down the 99 patches and auditioning sounds in a drumstation to find the patch that's doing what you want, or you could grab the knobs and adjust every single instrument right in about 30 seconds. It's not like the drumstation has as many parameters, or the sensitive range on parameters as the jomox airbase99, for instance!

[Cheyne]

Yea , i agree ...  You get much more satisfaction programming your own sounds too .. even if it is just a minor adjustment , you still have a say over it .. rather than just using someone elses patch ...

[SilverStreak]

Ooh did someone say Jomox?..........

I just cracked a fat!  ;D